Nippon Navigator #6 - EXPO 2025 Pavilion Germany and virtual cooperation with Japan

In the latest episode of the Nippon Navigator podcast, hosts Gregory Glanzmann and Maximilian Böger welcome Christopher Hecker, Director of the German Pavilion for EXPO 2025 in Osaka. Hecker gives a fascinating insight into the preparation and significance of the world exhibition, which is being held in Japan again after 20 years.

Nippon Navigator: EXPO 2025 Pavilion Germany and Virtual Cooperation with Japan

In the latest episode of the Nippon Navigator podcast, hosts Gregory Glanzmann and Maximilian Böger welcome Christopher Hecker, the director of the German pavilion for EXPO 2025 in Osaka. Hecker gives a fascinating insight into the preparation and significance of the world exhibition, which is being held in Japan again after 20 years.

Expo 2025: A look into the future

The motto of Expo 2025 is "Poetic Intelligent Circular" and promises a manifest experience for a sustainable future. Germany is investing heavily in an impressive pavilion, with over 300 experts working on its design. Hecker emphasises that the Expo offers a unique platform for presenting innovations and promoting international cooperation. The World Expo, which has been held regularly since 1851, has transformed itself from a pure exhibition into a global platform for dialogue and innovation.

Christopher Hecker: Between Germany and Japan

Christopher Hecker, born in Thuringia and raised in Cologne, discovered his passion for Japan at an early age. A year spent in a Buddhist temple in Aomori made a lasting impression on him. These experiences fed into his studies in Japanese and East Asian Studies and ultimately led to his role as Director of the German Pavilion. His close relationship with Japan, which he has built up over the years, is reflected in his work and enables him to effectively manage cultural differences and similarities.

His first points of contact with Japan came through an exchange programme after school, where he lived and worked in a Buddhist temple. This intensive time in Japan shaped his view of the country and its culture. On his return to Germany, he decided to study Japanese Studies and East Asian Politics and Society, which set his academic and professional course.

Germany's contribution to EXPO 2025

The German pavilion focuses on the circular economy and sustainable innovations. Under the title "WA Germany", it combines harmony, circularity and the WOW effect. The Circular mascot symbolises these principles and is particularly popular in Japanese kawaii culture. The pavilion will not only showcase Germany's technological advances and sustainable solutions, but also serve as a place for cultural exchange. Visitors can look forward to a diverse programme ranging from interactive exhibitions to cultural performances and culinary experiences.

The pavilion is divided into three main themed areas:

Biosphere and Technosphere: this area shows how natural and man-made worlds can coexist harmoniously. Innovative architecture and sustainable technologies will demonstrate how buildings and natural environments can interact to create a sustainable future.

Circular economy: Various German projects and products that have been developed in the spirit of the circular economy are presented here. Visitors can learn how Germany is implementing sustainable solutions and which innovations are already being used in everyday life.

Cultural interaction: In addition to the technological and ecological aspects, culture also plays a central role. The pavilion offers a stage for cultural performances and a restaurant that combines German and Japanese cuisine to promote cultural diversity and exchange.

Virtual collaboration: challenges and solutions

Hecker explains the challenges of virtual collaboration with Japanese teams. The cultural differences in communication and conflict resolution require adaptability and intercultural understanding. For Hecker, the ability to listen actively and communicate transparently is essential for successful international projects. Japanese culture places great value on harmony and indirect communication, which contrasts with the often more direct German style. This requires a high degree of sensitivity and adaptability from the German partners.

Hecker describes how virtual meetings often need to be thoroughly prepared in order to avoid misunderstandings. The Japanese partners appreciate it when details are clarified in advance and recorded in writing. This approach differs greatly from the German approach, which often favours spontaneous discussions and direct problem-solving. To facilitate collaboration, hybrid meetings are often organised in which part of the communication takes place virtually and part in person.

The concept of the German pavilion

The German pavilion is called "Poetic Intelligent Circular" and focuses on a circular economy concept that emphasises sustainability and innovation. The pavilion is described as a built manifesto for a better future in which the biosphere and technosphere are harmoniously combined. Visitors can look forward to architecture that is both functional and aesthetically pleasing, reflecting the principles of sustainability in every facet.

Insights into Japanese culture and business practices

Hecker shares his experiences and insights into Japanese culture, which are essential for working together. In Japan, it is important to build personal relationships and trust before discussing business matters. This differs greatly from German business culture, which often emphasises efficiency and directness. Hecker emphasises that understanding and respect for cultural differences are the key to success in international projects.

A central aspect of Japanese business culture is the principle of "nemawashi", which describes informal pre-agreement and consensus building. This practice helps to avoid conflicts and coordinate decisions in advance so that formal meetings run smoothly. Hecker explains that this practice is unfamiliar to many Western companies, but can be crucial for success in Japan.

The importance of EXPO 2025 for Germany and Japan

Expo 2025 offers Germany a unique opportunity to showcase its innovative strength and commitment to sustainability on a global stage. At the same time, it strengthens bilateral relations with Japan and promotes intercultural exchange. Hecker and his team are working closely with Japanese partners to ensure that the German pavilion is a place of learning, inspiration and collaboration.

Hecker emphasises that the Expo also provides a platform for the exchange of best practices and the promotion of joint projects between German and Japanese companies. This exchange can foster long-term partnerships and joint innovation projects that will last beyond the Expo.

Summary and outlook

Expo 2025 promises to be a highlight in the global event calendar. Germany will be represented with a forward-looking pavilion focussing on innovation and sustainability. Hecker invites all listeners to visit this event in Osaka and experience German culture and innovative strength at first hand. Preparations are in full swing and the collaboration with Japanese partners is already showing how much potential there is in this international co-operation.

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Transcript

If I'm not completely mistaken, over 300 people are working on the exhibition content and on the designs, for example for our mascot.

Germany at Expo 2025 Poetic Intelligent Circular

A built manifesto for a beautiful future.

Waaah!

Welcome to the Nippon Navigator with Gregory Glanzmann and Maximilian Böger. A European look at Japan's business world.

This is the podcast in which Max, as a European business model expert, dives into current topics in Japan's business world with Gregory as a Japan expert. From a European perspective, we discuss the peculiarities and look at what we can learn from them.

Today's episode of the Nippon Navigator Podcast is all about the upcoming world expo in Osaka, Expo 2025. The world expo is a concept that is repeatedly declared dead and yet continues to fascinate people in droves. Throughout history, the World Expo has always been a focal point for inventors and business people to expand internationally and promote their innovations globally. The role has changed somewhat.

And now, after 20 years, the Expo is being held in Japan again, for the third time. And we were curious to see what role the Expo plays for Germany. Germany is investing in a large pavilion. And we were able to get Christopher Hecker, the director of the German pavilion at Expo 2025 in Osaka, to talk to us a little about it. Exactly, just under a year to go before it starts. Christoph, are you still smiling? But I know, yes, the tension is building in your team too. But first of all, welcome to the team. You studied in Japan. But your first point of contact was actually a monastery experience. And of course the listeners and bhvd listeners now want to know who this Christopher is who is bringing the pavilion from Germany to Japan? And what do you actually have to take into account? But why don't you tell us about yourself? And your connection to Japan too.

Yes, Maximilian, Gregory, thank you very much for inviting me to your podcast. I'm delighted to be able to introduce myself, the team, the project and the German pavilion at Expo 2025 in Osaka today. Max, I'm happy to comply with your request to introduce myself a little. My name is Christopher Hecker. I was born in Thuringia, moved to Cologne and grew up in Cologne. After secondary school, I chose my grammar school, where you can choose Japanese in at least one study group. I ended up choosing the grammar school in Rodenkirchen. I started learning Japanese there with Mrs Heike Trumper. During my A-levels, the question naturally came up at some point: what are you going to do afterwards? At that time I was still doing community service, military service, etc. Of course, I discussed this with my Japanese teacher and came to the point: before you do anything, why don't you apply to the International Youth Community Service for your civilian service abroad, for your three-quarter social year abroad? And yes, that's right, I spent a year in a Buddhist temple in Aomori.

That's the northernmost prefecture on the main island of Japan, directly south of Hokkaido, in a small village called Kuminato. I think I was the third foreigner to have ever been there and was warmly welcomed by the people there. I worked in the temple.

Aomori is characterised by a lot of snow throughout the year when it is not summer. Clearing the temple in the morning so that people can get in. Reciting the mantras there, sitting along, experiencing the whole thing and letting it wash over you is the wrong word, but the whole thing... Participate and let yourself be guided, immerse yourself a little in this Japanese society, a very rural society. And in the afternoon, the children from the schools whose parents were still at work always came to us and we did their homework together, practised a bit of English and German and simply acted as a bit of an international hub for the people there. Also to show the younger generations that there are people outside of Japan who are different and look different, and to give them a positive feeling about interacting with someone who comes from somewhere else and to give them this building block that it works.

Was that your first role as an international ambassador?

That was my first role as an international representative in Japan.

Did you also meditate in the monastery?

Yes, that's when I came into very close contact with Buddhism, which is still with me today. I try to practise meditation every now and then and also to reflect on what is important. It was simply an experience that I think completely changes you as a person. What my priest taught me there and what still accompanies me today is: Christopher, be quiet, watch, listen, think about why something works, why people do it that way, and then you can discuss it again and think about whether your own point of view fits in. Or, as I once read in another book, to accept each other's rationality and also assume that the other people were thinking about something when they did it. That was a lesson learnt that has stayed with me to this day and is also a very important point in international project management, I believe.

When was that? I think the audience might be interested to know when you went to Japan for the first time. I think it was in 2008, 2009. Yes, but I have to say that again... Yes, because of course the question that the listeners probably have in mind is: the third foreigner who has ever been there? We are talking about Japan as a technological nation, which is of course an exciting contrast.

And perhaps again that Japan is also a country of contrasts when it comes to rural regions.

Yes, definitely. I was 18 or 19 years old when I was there. As you said, Japan is a country of contrasts, and there is simply a difference between experiencing Japan in Tokyo or Osaka or in another big city and actually travelling out into the countryside. After my civilian service, I studied Japanese Studies and Asian Studies at the University of Bonn, specialising in Japanese Studies. I then went to the University of Tübingen, where I studied a Master's degree in East Asian Politics and Society, also specialising in Japan.

After my Master's at the University of Tübingen, I went to Steinbeis University. There I completed my Master's degree in General Management and at the same time did an MBA at Post University in America. After that I worked there for a while, in between almost a year at Street Scooter, and then ended up at the Cologne Trade Fair Centre for the EXPO project.

And at the same time, which I think is very important, I was always actively involved in the German-Japanese network, especially with the German-Japanese business community, and made sure that every role had a connection to Japan in some way and didn't leave it out.

I think it is very actively practised. There are regular events organised by the respective associations. There are a lot of associations that deal with German-Japanese relations. There are regular events that are also very well networked right through to the universities. I think that is a very, very important point. There are co-operations across the universities to exchange students. Companies are also very active in these networks, be it German companies that are active in Japan or Japanese companies here in Germany. Of course, it is important to find suitable personnel, but also to get to know business opportunities, cooperation possibilities and to actively live the network. And I think that's a... If you get involved and put the energy into it, that's a really big point here in Germany in terms of German-Japanese relations, which have existed for many, many years.

Yes, Christopher, thank you very much for the introduction. I think you realise that there are few people in Germany who have already built up such a strong connection at your age. That's something to keep in mind. Today, of course, we also want to talk about your project and your team: the Expo. I think everyone in the audience somehow has an idea of the Expo, but nobody can really explain it. I asked ten people in advance what the Expo is and I got ten different answers. One even had no idea at all. And now the question to you, as a true expert who has been dealing with the Expo for over two years, correct me if I'm wrong: What is the Expo? Why is the Expo being organised? How has it changed? All the questions that are burning under our nails.

Well, Expo is the German word for world exhibition. It's been a regular event since 1851, if I'm not mistaken. Back then, it was still called an exhibition, where the world came together and peacefully presented its innovations. The basic idea was to present new products and innovations as a nation in order to stand out. This has evolved over the course of history. There has always been an Expo, no matter what, where the world has come together. Since the early 2000s, roughly, the expos have changed. The point now is that this event, which has been going on for over 200 years, is not just about showcasing your own nation and culture, but also serving as a platform to talk about global challenges and find solutions.

And that is the important point: why does a nation take part in an Expo and why are Expos so incredibly important for shaping our future? It's the event where politics, culture and business from almost every country in the world come together for six months. It's not just a party conference, it's six months of different teams running the pavilions and hosting delegations from business, politics and culture. We invite school groups, older generations and other visitors to learn about Germany and the other countries and the ideas on how to solve global challenges and what innovations and projects there are.

Naturally, this also leads to collaborations and friendships that last beyond the Expo. The Bureau International des Expositions (BIE), which organises and manages the world expositions, makes an important contribution to shaping our future. It is one of the most important events a nation can take part in and it offers the population and guests the opportunity to get to know the whole world in one place. I had the opportunity to experience Dubai for a week and it was very emotional for me. It's a change in understanding that you go through once you've been part of the Expo theme.

Dear listeners, 2025, Osaka - mark it firmly in your diary. Of course, we also want to talk about all the preparations, but what interests me right now is: How many visitors will be coming to Osaka and how many visitors do you expect to visit the German Pavilion every day?

I believe that over 26 million visitors are currently forecast for the Expo. As the German Pavilion, we are assuming that at least three million visitors will visit us over the six-month period and that we will be able to present German culture and innovations there.

You talk about culture and innovation, and you spoke earlier about dialogue. How would you prioritise that? Are they two equally important topics or is the focus on one side?

I think our focus in the German Pavilion is on presenting innovations and showcasing the ideas that Germany has. Every Expo has a global theme that each country can break down for itself. We will be travelling to Japan with just under 100 people and presenting the German way of working and culture there. Of course, there is also the cultural aspect, which always resonates. We have an event stage where we will be presenting various things, and we will also be offering culinary delights.

A topic that still interests me: It used to be called the Leistungsschau. Today, evil tongues say it's tourism. Can you comment on that?

You said it's about innovation and solutions to challenges. Is it more tourism or does it go further than back then?

I wasn't there back then, so I can only judge from books. In the past, the circle was probably more selective. Today it's about solving global challenges, and you do that by involving the population. The target group of an Expo is international civil society. Of course, tourism is involved when you visit the countries and travel to the host country. But the aim is to bring the population to this place and raise awareness among visitors that their actions have an impact on the future. That is the central point of why expos are important.

What does it actually mean to build a pavilion? When did the journey begin and what does it take?

I think it takes at least eight years to organise an Expo. The BIE asks which cities want to organise the next Expo. Then there are discussions in the country, bids are submitted and presented. Here in Germany, everything is organised by the Federal Ministry for Economic Affairs and Climate Protection. There are calls for tenders and partners to work with. There are over 300 people working on the exhibition content and designs. For example, we have a mascot called Circular.

Next to us are South Korea on one side and Luxembourg on the other. It's fascinating how you build resilient relationships through collaboration and communication, even if the other person speaks a different language. We can only make progress by working together.

If you were to categorise the type of communication with the host country Japan, how does it differ from other countries? What challenges do you see?

Japan is a country where direct conflict and a direct "no" are avoided. That is perceived as impolite.

And I think that's a relatively stark contrast to the way we discuss things here in Germany, where things get really heated in meetings, I'd say, where opinions really clash and you have this culture of conflict, where things are really thrown into each other's heads and discussed. That's the way we've been socialised here and it's what works and is acceptable here. But when you go to Japan, where it's less accepted and less valued to do something like that, it's more about not bumping someone on the head. Thinking about maintaining harmony in the team and in the partnership, thinking about both sides saving face and avoiding open conflict to a relatively large extent. And that can present challenges when it comes to saying: No, we as a participating country have decided this for ourselves, we want to do it this way in order to get it through to our Japanese colleagues and to position it correctly. The approach we are pursuing is of course to consider what we want, how we want to do it, to check what are the regulations of the Expo, what are the regulations of the BIE, what are Japanese legal requirements that we have to comply with, what are German legal requirements that we have to comply with and regulations. We need to take all of this into account in our preparations, find out about it and then seek dialogue with our colleagues at the Expo and say that we will also have a direct conversation in the sense of: We have a virtual in-call or we then travel to Japan and then schedule the meetings there in person and say this is our preparation. This and this and this are the framework conditions we have to work with. And then also pick them up: How do you see it? And this collection, which is what a meeting is for in German culture, where you say: We'll sit down together, we'll present the respective points of view. That's not really what a meeting is for in Japan. The world of thought is usually like this: The meeting is there to discuss again that we are all in agreement and that we have already discussed all the things in advance and then to decide this in the meeting, to maintain the harmony there and to go out together with Save the Face and have a consensus. And sometimes it's really difficult to get people who don't have that much experience with Japan on board, which is what the meetings are for. And then you also have to work on it. How do you send things in advance by email? How do you prepare it so that colleagues in Japan can prepare themselves, so that those who can familiarize themselves with the topic on their side can come to the meetings and discuss it? And we have also prepared ourselves for this here, the meetings we have are then there to present our point of view, but we have moved away from the expectation that we will get a binding, concrete statement there, but then say:And this collection, which is what a meeting is for in German culture, where you say: We'll sit down together, we'll present the respective points of view. That's not really what a meeting is for in Japan. The world of thought is usually like this: The meeting is there to discuss again that we are all in agreement and that we have already discussed all the things in advance and then to decide this in the meeting, to maintain the harmony there and to go out together with Save the Face and have a consensus. And sometimes it's really difficult to get people who don't have that much experience with Japan on board, which is what the meetings are for. And then you also have to work on it. How do you send things in advance by email? How do you prepare it so that colleagues in Japan can prepare themselves, so that those who can familiarise themselves with the topic on their side can come to the meetings and discuss it? And we have also prepared ourselves for this here, the meetings we have are then there to present our point of view, but we have moved away from the expectation that we will get a binding, concrete statement there, but then say: Okay, that's what we've presented, that's what we've discussed, we've done a good job with our framework conditions, our approaches and we ask for feedback at a later date so that we can discuss this further. And then there are the online meetings again or the written communication where this is recorded. And that has worked well so far.

That sounds like a construct that you have now introduced on the basis of experience and your long prior knowledge of the country. The concept of this nemawashi is a business concept, to circulate the information in the company in advance, to have the preliminary discussion and then to consolidate it, so to speak: This is now our common opinion. I assume your role also involves a bit of cultural mediation, because when I look at your partners, Köln Messe is clearly a German company. Many of the other partners, such as Geli Wenz, who are jointly responsible for the overall concept or for the construction, I don't think that's a purely German company, but otherwise you have architecture with Lava Berlin, Vostfischer from Frankfurt and the construction management, LSW from Germany. They probably have less experience of Japan than you, which they bring to the table.

These are all partners who have been selected by the Federal Ministry, who have applied for the tenders and who have many years of experience in realising expos. And, of course, they also have a very broad network. And I think that's an important point. For example, LSW, our construction project manager, has once again appointed a well-known colleague from Japan, for example, who also advises from time to time and is then also on site in Japan to take a look at the construction site and also sits in on the meetings. So the networks of the individual colleagues are also activated.

You just mentioned Foss and Fischer. They are of course a long-standing partner when it comes to international events and stage programmes. In Mike Heisen, they have a curator who has an extremely wide network when it comes to international relationships. We also had friends in Japan who had already attended DIY culture training courses and have also prepared themselves for how to behave in Japan in terms of knick-knacks and what the to-dos are and what the no-gos are. We have what we call the working group. These are the people who are responsible for the design, the construction and the dismantling and they are made up of Facts & Fiction, a creative agency here in Cologne, who have also brought in the expertise on how to work in Japan and have dealt with it intensively. They work together with GL Events and GL Events Japan, who act as our construction company and have the international logistics arm, so to speak, and have the backup to put a building like this there in the first place and to supply the whole thing administratively and with manpower. I can't even begin to tell you how much experience Christian Schersig from Lava Architects in Berlin, who is our lead architect, already has with Expo buildings and other structures. But you can also see how he always has the enthusiasm to liaise with his Japanese colleagues and the architects in the host country, with whom you work together and then also seek dialogue with them. That's the German idea, we want to build it this way and that way. What's it like in Japan? Is that possible? Is that not possible? What needs to be adapted? And also to identify these, yes, overlaps and gaps, to discuss how this works.

I think we absolutely must not forget 78 Degrees as our restaurant operator. They come from Thurgau and have implemented a restaurant concept that fits in perfectly with the concept of the German pavilion, with modern, traditional German cuisine and German-Japanese fusion cuisine, as well as sourcing the basic resources for the dishes locally and, of course, taking sustainability and circular economy aspects into account. I believe that all of the partners that we have brought together for this project, such as the BMWK, have this background idea: we have made it our mission to implement this sustainably and this is one of the most important decision-making criteria for all decisions, right down to which paper we print on. Yes, and you've already talked about the concept of the pavilion.

By the way, I also looked at the partner list in preparation. 78 Degrees. And I thought to myself, restaurant, shop owner, and I googled, where could the name come from? And for the listeners, apart from the whole topic, alcohol is cooked at 78.3 degrees. And my assumption, which I would like to investigate next year, is whether this also plays a relevant role in the dishes in the German pavilion. We'll see. But, Christoph, you mentioned the concept of the German pavilion. We've already seen the mascot. At least everyone who has switched on the video. Maybe you'll show it again.

Exactly. There it is. Our circular. Circular. What is the concept and how does it reflect the overall theme of the Expo? Can you tell us more? The German pavilion is entitled WA Germany.

WA has three meanings in Japanese, according to our analogy. The first is harmony. For us, harmony in the sense that we want to create a building with the pavilion that unites and shows the biosphere, i.e. the natural world, and the technosphere, i.e. everything that is created by humans, in one building, in a functional building - that is very important: Architecture can be sustainable and can allow natural and functional spaces to flow together and allow this harmony to prevail between giving nature the space to continue to unfold, but as humans we have functional spaces that we need for our everyday existence, so to speak.

But WA also means circularity in Japanese and circularity. Circular economy is the core theme of the German pavilion. With the building, with the exhibition, with the cultural programme and with the restaurant, we are presenting the projects that Germany is currently running on this topic of the circular economy, which products already exist that are sustainable and fit into this circular concept. And that is the main theme that runs through the entire exhibition, the entire participation. And WA, the third meaning, is this "wow" from Japanese, the enthusiasm, the enthusiastic expression of having learnt or seen something, of being flashed by something. And that's what we want visitors to come to our pavilion, explore the site, experience the exhibition and then go out at the end and say: "Wow, this is Germany, I want to go to Germany, I want to see Germany there again and I want to find out more about these projects and innovations."

And that is what we want visitors to take away with them. That is the core of the German pavilion. What do you think it is about Germany that fascinates the Japanese? I think what has fascinated the Japanese about the German pavilion is definitely our mascot, the Circular. We have received a consistently positive response to our mascot. I think it simply went down very well in Japan because we also put a lot of thought into the background with the kawaii culture in Japan. How should mascots look, how should mascots work? I think that was simply very well received. And of course over this long period of time. You work every day and I think it always comes bit by bit, that you then see more, this piece of the puzzle that you have put together, and to keep up the motivation in the team and to see what each individual needs to make it work. And then I think the role changes a bit during the operating period. Then we are on site in Japan with the entire German team. And then on 13 April 2025, when our doors open, the pressure will really start. We are expecting a total of three million visitors, who want to have a functioning exhibition, who want to get to know the pavilion. And that it's not a sprint and you don't burn yourself out at the start, but that this battery that each individual has is regularly replenished so that they last until the end and until the last visitor who goes through the pavilion has the same experience as the very first visitor to the German pavilion, in order to show what we stand for here in Germany: This is what we stand for here in Germany. Are you already in the final spurt of your marathon or are you still in the middle of it? I think I'm just on the uphill curve. It's getting more and more concrete now. And for me it feels like turning the corner after a long run and then coming up the mountain at the end. Because then in April, when the Expo kicks off, I think it's going to be a very, very steep road at first, representing Germany every day and realising all the things I've just mentioned.

And I think that when the Expo is over, you're so close to the finish line and it's a load off your mind. Then it's all about reducing the German participation again. Yes, you might need another short stay in Aomori to come down a bit at the end. You say you're not finished yet, you still have a lot to do, but nevertheless, in the whole preparation, in the management of all the partners.

You now have a very long history with Japan, a long relationship with Japan. It's also a country with many long-term horizons, as we've already discussed in previous episodes. But what's it like? You actually come in relatively quickly and now want to set up the German pavilion here. How is that going down?

That is a real challenge. It's also an expectation for every company that goes to Japan. So Japan and the colleagues in Japan don't say: "Yeah cool, you're here and we're going to start working straight away." It doesn't work like that.

So it's simple... You travel there, you have the first meeting with Team A, I say, or with Person A. Then something is discussed, then you fly back again.

Yes, that was a great meeting, it worked really well. Then you fly back and have a conversation with a completely different set of people who you have to tell the same thing to again. And then you might have a third meeting until the whole organisation has got to know you and decided as a group: Okay, we can and want to work with them.

Then you get into this situation where people say: This and this are the requirements, this and this must be implemented. Only then do you get the first offers. And conducting negotiations in Japan is of course also a real challenge, especially if you're not permanently on site and if you can't maintain a personal relationship in the way that is actually the consensus in Japanese, and I think that's a real challenge for many countries at an Expo like this in Japan right now. To say: We still have a year and in a year's time this building has to be here, just as we imagined it. And we are glad that we have our partners with GL Events Japan, who have been active there for several years, who have had their network there for several years and have contacts that they can fall back on. And that, I believe, is a great advantage for us here as Köln Messe. Of course, we have Köln Messe Japan, which has its network and contacts there, with which they support us and, of course, keep saying or advising us: Do it this way and that way or meet with them and do it this way and that way. And I think it's really important to think outside the box: who do I know or who knows who knows who? Finding a personal dialogue and then discussing things without losing face, without filters, is really helpful. And I think that's a really big challenge. And it's also a challenge for many other companies and projects.

Your currently paused promotion, if I'm correct, is about virtual collaboration between German and Japanese teams. That's super exciting for us as a podcast. You said that sometimes I have to fly there, sometimes we have virtual meetings. Now you're doing online job interviews. What have you learnt from this and what new learnings have you generated from the project for your doctorate, which you will probably complete, right?

We can ask the same question. The plan to complete my doctorate at some point is definitely still there. The goal hasn't disappeared.

The core question of my doctoral thesis is: What skills do you need as a manager to build trust in virtual German-Japanese teams? The basic hypothesis is that a team only works if there is a basis of trust. So you have the forming, storming, norming, performing and then also the adjourning phase in a team.

And throughout these phases, you always have the interpersonal component of how trust is built. Trust is built up and only with these existing relationships of trust can you enter the performing phase. That you work together as people. And trust is built up in different cultures, it's put together differently. Yes, everyone in Germany, for example, is concerned with how to build trust from the literature, that you deliver things as expected, in a timely manner, as discussed, and then also show that you can perform, so to speak, show that people can trust you. That's one of the building blocks here from German culture. And in Japanese culture, which I found very interesting, it's a bit the other way round.

Can I work with you personally and can I work with you as a person? Can I trust you? And only after that, how do you actually work and how do you deliver your work? And only with these two building blocks, which are different in German and Japanese culture, to understand this as a manager and to see how you implement it, how you explain it?

How do you take the team with you and how do you take the different expectations with you, in the virtual space, which is also a barrier to building trust, to get a project like this, a team like this, into the performing phase? And what I am now doing here as director. I haven't completely finished the reflection process yet, but I think expectation management is the be-all and end-all at the end of the day. So the expectation that someone, how do I phrase this now, the, the, you start a job, you start a role and you have a certain idea of what it will be like. You imagine it somehow. And then suddenly you have the reality, which may be completely different. And this gap between expectation and reality has to be managed by a manager who has to lead intercultural teams virtually. And a lot of communication has to go into it, customised communication for the people, a lot of time and energy has to be invested in picking people up, checking in advance what they expect from the role and also being transparent, is it like that, is it not like that, what do you expect and always taking them with you and also looking at the little things.

The little things that are the sand in the gears during teamwork, especially in virtual meetings, do they work or don't they work? And if it doesn't work, intervene early on and seek a dialogue again and say, I didn't think it was so cool, you have to do this again or think again about how you formulate something or simply switch on the camera in the meeting and make sure that the background is quiet and that you can have a good conversation. I think there are so many things that you need to do as a manager and also as a manager who wants to continue to lead in the future and build up their team. I always start from the premise that, as a manager, you can't know everything. It's not necessarily your role to know everything and to know how things work. Your role is more to empower the people in your team to either build up the knowledge from within themselves or they already have the knowledge and then implement it and also create the framework conditions so that it works and give them the freedom to make it work, because that's how teamwork works in my opinion. You have the expertise for the individual areas or are building up the expertise for these individual areas and this must be managed by you as a manager. Across cultures, across distances. And that's where I deal with the question of what skills you actually need as a manager to be able to do that at all. What did you learn from your Buddhists during your very first experience in Japan?

As my priest said at the time, just be quiet and listen. So active listening is really important.

Not necessarily always reacting directly to it and not always immediately throwing feedback at it in a conversation and then presenting your own opinion first. It's a lot about listening and saying thank you for sharing this with me, taking it on board and then taking the time to reflect on it,

to reflect on it. Can it work, can it not work, what things need to be taken into account and then seeking dialogue again and also involving the other people who need to be involved in good time and then looking at how to proceed. And I believe that competence, active listening, transparent communication and always having an anchor point, what are the values that I want to have in my team that are implemented.

For me, of course, a final question about the project. What do you think we as Germany, as the German-speaking countries of Austria and Switzerland, can learn from Japan? Perhaps also, of course, in terms of business relationships, business in general. What are your three biggest points, if you can name them at all, where you think, hey, these are the things we should really learn from.

I have two points that come to mind off the top of my head.

Lessons learnt so far for the project in cooperation with Japan, which are certainly important for other companies, are that you have to prepare for Japan. Going to Japan, doing business in Japan, should not and should not be an ad hoc decision. A lot of energy has to go into the preparation and it's not just preparation here in Germany, it's also network and relationship preparation in Japan, looking at who I have to realise this. And I think I understand that Japan works differently. As a company and as a person going to Japan, you won't change Japanese culture just because you are there. You have to adapt to the culture of the host country and understand how things work there. And that takes a lot of preparation and a lot of energy, time and money, which will go into it until you can perhaps turn a profit from this project in the end. And to have a positive project there, to have a positive business, personal relationships are the be-all and end-all in my opinion. Otherwise you sometimes don't get the right contacts and you don't get the offers that you actually need and that you actually expect. Because, as I've learnt so far, many of the offers that you get as a newcomer in Japan, so to speak, involve a lot of risk calculation. There is a very high cost involved in the offer, which is simply there to ensure that the Japanese are protected from the risk side as far as this new collaboration is concerned, and you can minimise this risk component the better your relationships in the country are and the better your relationships with the respective contact person are. I think it's very important for companies and project managers in Japan to understand this, to prepare for it, to have workshops and training courses and to give it a lot of thought and, very importantly, not just to do it themselves, in the sense of I'm now in Japan and it's at home here, but also to get the team, the managers and the management in the company in Germany on board with what you are actually preparing for and what the consequences are, so that you have the backing and the buying in Germany over the years that it takes to build it up. Because I think that's the worst thing you can do as a company is to go to Japan, take part in the trade fair or have the first talks there and say, okay, that was cool, I'll come back next year and then be there again and then say, okay, I haven't done any business here.

I'm out now. And actually the third rule would be to be there three times until the first colleagues in Japan say, ok, you've been here longer, you've been here longer, let's talk. And that's a lot of time, a lot of planning and a lot of money that goes into the preparation. But once it's there, once you've built up this trust, once you have the relationships.

From the experiences I've had so far, I'm convinced that the business relationships you have in Japan won't let you down. And continue to see how you can make progress in Japan. And then, of course, introduce yourself to others because they trust you, because they say that this is a good company, a good project partner that we are working with. Because this introduction and getting to know each other is always in the sense that I am now presenting one of my relationships to someone else, someone new. And if they don't do something right or if they don't perform or behave as expected, then it reflects negatively on me because I recommended them. And I think that's really important to understand how relationships work.

In any case, very deep insights into the "way to do business" in Japan. Thank you very much for that. I hope you have already prepared your business cards for your next trip to Japan. Enough with you. They still play a big role here. Thanks for the preparation from my team. Prepared, printed out and packed in the suitcase.

Thank you very much for your time, for all the information, all the answers, all the topics we were able to cover together during this time. We had a lot of fun and of course we wish you every success with the German Pavilion next year. Thank you for the invitation, Maximilian, Gregory. I was very pleased to be here, to be able to present the German Pavilion, to be able to reflect a little on how a project like this works in Japan, what my lessons learnt are. And I look forward to welcoming you and, of course, your audience to the German Pavilion in Osaka 2025. What a conversation. We learnt a lot from Christopher. Insanely deep and also learnt what it means to organise such an expo from another country. In any case, yes, and for the first time we had Buddhism and innovation together in the same podcast. I think we should also look at what the other German-speaking countries in Europe are preparing for the Expo. I'm totally with you on that. But we've ticked off Germany now. Why don't we get the Swiss on board? I will.

I will. Let's talk to the Swiss in the next episode and see what they're planning. Yes, I think I'll get in touch with the Austrians, because I've got a bad feeling. I think we should get this trio together somehow, I'd say. Very good. I think we'll end up with a Japanese Matane, as always!

This was the Nippon Navigator, a European view of Japan's business world. If you like the podcast, please recommend us and click on subscribe. Hosts Maximilian Böger and Gregory Glanzmann and sound design Marceau Glanzmann.